Looking for an Atari Falcon

[jens]

HDDriver is superior, as is CBHD, a freeware driver. I always thought paying for a hard disk driver was silly, though...

Well, HdDriver is the best hard disk driver for Atari 16/32 machines.
While others are quite limited in several ways HdDriver allows to use F32 in combination with replacement operating systems like MiNT or MagiC, plus you can use big hard drives. On one of my Falcons I have 120 gigs attached to listen to mp3 files - this is just possible through HdDriver.
Uwe Seimet, the programmer is doing a terrific job, and the software is worth every cent you pay if you ask me.

I'm using other drivers on earlier machines as well (on which I don't need so much features), so I think I know what I'm talking about.

[PrintStar]

Well, HdDriver is the best hard disk driver for Atari 16/32 machines.
While others are quite limited in several ways HdDriver allows to use F32 in combination with replacement operating systems like MiNT or MagiC, plus you can use big hard drives. On one of my Falcons I have 120 gigs attached to listen to mp3 files - this is just possible through HdDriver.
Uwe Seimet, the programmer is doing a terrific job, and the software is worth every cent you pay if you ask me.

I'm using other drivers on earlier machines as well (on which I don't need so much features), so I think I know what I'm talking about.

I agree that HDDriver is the best. CBHD is pretty good as well. I used that on my TT030 with an 8GB drive (2GB partitions) with FAT32 and Minix partitions for years.

That said, I still don't want to pay for hard drive software for my Atari, so I don't. Since I personally don't have a need for a 120GB hard drive on my Atari, I guess I'm ok .

[jens]

Btw:
I recently heard that a system like NetBSD will run without Atari hard disk drivers, so this should make bigger drives available as well, if you just want to run any operating system on your machine to fiddle around with it.

[kvanderlaag]

I think you should integrate an Atari Falcon into a Ford Falcon as a carputer.

[kickback999]

Well you need 14mb ram and a 1gb at least hard drive in it I would just keep tos on with the standard hard disk drive ahdi.
Just use a serial null modem put on some games, mp3's, pictures, aniplayer, nvdi, set up sting for internet and your off.
Excellent little computer really still usable as ones main computer if you so wished.

[martyg]

While Tramiel may have been head of the companies, it was the technicians which made it possible. He obviously blew it with giving up his hold on the Amiga.

Lawrence

He never had a hold on it, the suit was launched as a counter suit strike against Commodore. They had launched suits against Shiraz and several other former Commodore engineers in early July, getting an injunction against them doing any work on a computer for Atari Corp. The Amiga contract was discovered in late July by Jack's son Leonard and Jack had the contract transferred over from Warner in early August (it wasn't part of the original purchase). He then launched a suit against Amiga in mid August to strike back against Commodore.

I'll agree with you on a few points above...
Back to the Tramiels, though... They were cheap and not especially technical, but they sure knew how to get things done. Atari was quite successful under them for many years, especially compared to the mess they purchased from Warner Communications.

I'm not sure what you mean to imply with the above. The only thing they purchased from Warner was Atari Consumer, which included the consumer IP, facilities, distribution network, and the Atari brand name. Atari Inc. itself ceased to exist, Atari Corp. was a separate company.

"Holding on" to the Amiga obviously wasn't going to work due to the wacky contract between Atari and Amiga (very strange indeed...).

What wacky and strange contract? It was pretty straight forward. Unless you're going by RJ Mical's misinformation that was put out there for years?



Marty
ClassicGaming.Com

Atari Gaming Headquarters
www.atarihq.com

Electronic Entertainment Museum (E2M)

[PrintStar]

I'm not sure what you mean to imply with the above. The only thing they purchased from Warner was Atari Consumer, which included the consumer IP, facilities, distribution network, and the Atari brand name. Atari Inc. itself ceased to exist, Atari Corp. was a separate company.

What I was implying was that all the "stuff" that the Tramiels purchased was not in particularly great financial shape. They (Tramiel & Co.) sold off plenty of hard assets that they purchased in that transaction, for example, that they considered overkill for a consumer electronics company. Atari Consumer was the bulk of "Atari," I'd argue, although possibly wrongly...

What wacky and strange contract? It was pretty straight forward. Unless you're going by RJ Mical's misinformation that was put out there for years?

I think I was agreeing with you here. Atari had made an odd loan to Amiga. I consider it a bit wacky in my opinion business-wise. I understand the situation.

I don't think it really matters anymore anyway. It's all documented in SEC filings. If someone really gave a crap (i.e. not me), they could look all this up.

[martyg]

What I was implying was that all the "stuff" that the Tramiels purchased was not in particularly great financial shape. They (Tramiel & Co.) sold off plenty of hard assets that they purchased in that transaction, for example, that they considered overkill for a consumer electronics company. Atari Consumer was the bulk of "Atari," I'd argue, although possibly wrongly...

I think there's a bit of confusion here. There was no "financial shape" to what they bought, they bought IP, facilities, etc. The financial shape was Atari Inc.'s which as a company ceased to exist. The debt aspect was a separate part of the transaction and had to do with how Jack was able to buy the properties with no actual money - promissory notes to Warner, stock, and an agreement to take a large part of the Atari Inc. debt so Warner could write it off it's books. (Since Jack wasn't buying Atari Inc. itself, only a portion of it's IP and assets). Warner also kept any open accounts to be able to pay the remaining debt as well. What hard assets are you claiming they sold off btw?

I think I was agreeing with you here. Atari had made an odd loan to Amiga. I consider it a bit wacky in my opinion business-wise. I understand the situation.

I don't think it really matters anymore anyway. It's all documented in SEC filings. If someone really gave a crap (i.e. not me), they could look all this up.

That's what I'm asking, what was wacky about it? You stating that leads me to believe you may be going off the misinformation that's out there. I have the contract in front of me (signed in March of '84, with a second one with the full licensing, royalty, and stock terms to be signed in June/July on the delivery of the chips). I don't see a single wacky thing in there. And yes, we paid for the entire box full of federal court documents, conducted direct interviews, etc. in an effort to clear it up - which we have. I actually did a full presentation on it back in September for the Commodore convention in Chicago.

Marty
ClassicGaming.Com

Atari Gaming Headquarters
www.atarihq.com

Electronic Entertainment Museum (E2M)

[PrintStar]

I think there's a bit of confusion here. There was no "financial shape" to what they bought, they bought IP, facilities, etc. The financial shape was Atari Inc.'s which as a company ceased to exist. The debt aspect was a separate part of the transaction and had to do with how Jack was able to buy the properties with no actual money - promissory notes to Warner, stock, and an agreement to take a large part of the Atari Inc. debt so Warner could write it off it's books. (Since Jack wasn't buying Atari Inc. itself, only a portion of it's IP and assets). Warner also kept any open accounts to be able to pay the remaining debt as well.

Fair enough. The specifics aren't particularly important (at least to me). The Warner Atari was a financial mess, is that a fair statement? When Tramiel & friends arrived, bought some stuff, and started Atari Corp., the new Tramiel Atari was in significantly better financial shape.

What hard assets are you claiming they sold off btw?

Dadhacker has covered this. I'm not "claiming," I'm just reiterating stuff I've read.

That's what I'm asking, what was wacky about it? You stating that leads me to believe you may be going off the misinformation that's out there. I have the contract in front of me (signed in March of '84, with a second one with the full licensing, royalty, and stock terms to be signed in June/July on the delivery of the chips). I don't see a single wacky thing in there. And yes, we paid for the entire box full of federal court documents, conducted direct interviews, etc. in an effort to clear it up - which we have. I actually did a full presentation on it back in September for the Commodore convention in Chicago.

Marty, I don't think you read what I said in my last post. I'm sure the contract is just dandy and legal and all that. All I said was that it seemed to be an odd business decision to loan Amiga (or whatever they were called at the time) the money because I don't see what Atari got out of it. In my opinion, it was an odd choice to make the loan, that's all. I wasn't implying that it was shady or anything like that. I'm sure you do know plenty more than myself about this; I was simply stating an opinion based on my limited knowledge and the fact that Atari didn't seem to get much from the deal, making it an odd business decision.

If I'm wrong, so be it. I'll live... I've never seen so much passion about a minor business transaction from the 1980s.

[martyg]

Dadhacker has covered this. I'm not "claiming," I'm just reiterating stuff I've read.

Understood. He's making an assumption though. They had plans to trim down the divisions, properties, etc. of course - something that was already being done under Morgan. But it was more to remove dead weight rather than coming in to see what they could make money selling off. And actually, they had a full plan already in place for both the home console division and the computer division (not just minor upgrades).

Marty, I don't think you read what I said in my last post.

Jeff, I did read your last post. I don't think you were fully reading mine or the context was lost. RJ Mical put a lot of misinformation out there regarding all this, so much so that it's always regurgitated as canon. Rather than jumping to conclusions that you were coming from the same place, I was simply giving you a chance to explain your self.

I'm sure the contract is just dandy and legal and all that.

I was not commenting on the legal matters, nor accusing you of stating anything was not legal.

All I said was that it seemed to be an odd business decision to loan Amiga (or whatever they were called at the time) the money because I don't see what Atari got out of it. In my opinion, it was an odd choice to make the loan, that's all. I wasn't implying that it was shady or anything like that. I'm sure you do know plenty more than myself about this; I was simply stating an opinion based on my limited knowledge and the fact that Atari didn't seem to get much from the deal, making it an odd business decision.

a) When someone asks you questions, it's because they want to engage in dialogue. And they want to continue that dialogue better informed on the other person's viewpoints rather than make assumptions on what they think the other is referring to.
b) I asked you repeatedly why you thought it was "wacky" and "odd". Now you finally gave the answer "I don't see what Atari got out of it".
c) What Atari got out of it:

In Fall '83, Dave Morse and Jay Miner approached Atari Inc. and Warner for money and a possible licensing of technology. Dave had already had several investors in Amiga, but it was taking to long in development and they were having problems making ends meet. They signed an initial talking agreement and NDA then, and then met up again privately with Warner at the January '84 CES. It was decided then Warner and some of the Atari top management wanted to pursue this for their next generation technology. The initial details would be hashed out over the next month, with a "pre-contract" contract signed in early March. Atari Inc. was going to be using the Amiga chip set in -

- Their next generation console to be released that Winter '84. Codenamed Mickey, under the agreement a keyboard expansion could be added in '85 (a time stipulation required by Amiga), allowing it to be used as a full fledged computer.
- A regular computer was targeted for release in '86.
- This chips were also to be used in coin as well for next generation 68000 platforms.

The $500,000 was only an initial payment to secure the licensing signing agreement which was to take place in June/July. There was no "pay us back by this time or we get the company". All the tech docs and such were being held in escrow until then, and if Amiga folded before then Atari would get access to the chip set and materials without the need for a license in lieu of the $500,000 initial investment. The stipulation was there because Amiga already had several investors that would be chopping it up and staking claims in attempts to recover. Upon delivery of the first chip fabs (Mickey was all ready, the pcb was laid out and ordered and they were just waiting for the chips), Atari would then pay $500,000 for each chip, purchase 1 million shares at $3 a piece, and pay a $2 royalty on each unit produced.

So in summary, Warner and Atari were planning on using this across the board. Both in the Consumer division for a console, the Computer division for the next gen computer, and in Coin for their next gen system boards.

If I'm wrong, so be it. I'll live... I've never seen so much passion about a minor business transaction from the 1980s.

On the contrary, it's hardly a "minor transaction". It's still a major point of contention between the Atari and Amiga communities, is intimately tied to the corporate histories of both companies during this transition period and what was going on overall, and is tied to the "origins" of the entire ST line.